Some of the many things Cheryl Schatz has gotten wrong

by Matt Slick

Return to main article about Cheryl Schatz and women in ministry


  1. Cheryl says I have sinned against her by saying she is heretical in her opinion of women being able to have authority over men in the church and to also be able to be pastors and teachers.
    1. This is the definition of heresy I posted to her on the CARM discussion boards.  It was taken from dictionary.com: "Heresy:  1. opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system. 2.the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3.Roman Catholic Church. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. 4.any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc."
      She is certainly at variance with established beliefs and customs in the area of women authority/pastors/elders in the historic church.  So the definition fits that way.
      But, she has stated that according to her church she isn't at odds, because her church agrees with her.  Interesting.  So, would this mean that if she and her church denied the Trinity that she wouldn't be a heretic because they both agree?  Since when does Cheryl think that a single church is what establishes orthodoxy?  She is not on solid ground here in her thinking.
    2. I have not sinned against her by saying that she is in error/heresy in this particular area.  She is just over reacting.
    3. See Cheryl's Sin list against Matt Slick with responses for a more detailed response.
  2. Cheryl says that I called her radio poison on the Faith and Reason Radio show and that saying so is slander. (http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=122527)
    1. First of all, how is calling someone radio poison slanderous?
    2. Second, what "is" radio poison?
    3. Third, I did not call her radio poison.  I said that someone else called her radio poison after hearing her on my show.  Apparently, Cheryl doesn't listen very intently.  Why?  I don't know, but I get the impression she looks for things to fault people with.
    4. But, Cheryl will probably say that even repeating that someone called her radio poison is somehow slanderous.
  3. Cheryl said that Diane S. (Diane uploads the Radio Show Podcasts and oversees the CARM discussion boards) edited the radio program where I supposedly called her "radio poison" and removed the phrase and that I owed her an apology. (http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?t=122527)
    1. First of all, Diane did not edit it.
    2. Second, Cheryl didn't listen well to what was actually said and she jumped the gun.
    3. Third, she finally admitted that she was mistaken after being corrected about Diane editing the radio show.  Apparently, she had listened to the wrong show and then accused Diane of, basically, being decptive in editing the show.
    4. Did she apologize to Diance for this?  No.  But, Cheryl is quick to require public apologies for various "sins committed against her."  Why did she not apologize to Diane according to her own standard?
  4. Cheryl says that I am not loving or respectful.
    1. This is a subjective complaint.  But, what would she do with the following verses:
      1. Matt. 12:34, "You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart."
      2. Matt. 21:12, "And Jesus entered the temple and cast out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the moneychangers and the seats of those who were selling doves."
      3. Matt. 23:27, "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness."
      4. Luke 11:44, "Woe to you! For you are like concealed tombs, and the people who walk over them are unaware of it.”
      5. Luke 11:46-47, "Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers. 47 “Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and it was your fathers who killed them."
    2. I'm not saying that Cheryl is a viper, or moneychanger, or a scribe, or pharisee, or whitewashed tomb, etc. I'm only pointing out that our Lord and Savior wasn't always "loving or respectful". There are times to point out peoples' errors.  I strongly believe Cheryl Schatz is in error and I have pointed it out.

 

I could go on, but this whole things seems to be a waste of time to have to deal with these issues and Cheryl's vindication and accusations.  I can only hope that she will learn to be more compatible with fellow Christians, even when she isn't treated as nicely as she'd like.  Didn't Jesus say

Matt. 5:38, "...but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also."

I've only done what I believe is biblically proper.  I've stood against her teachings and called her position on women in ministry to be heretical; that is, it is contrary to sound biblical theology as has been upheld by the Christian Church.1 I've never said she is not a Christian.  That was never how I used the term 'heresy' or 'heretical' with her.  She, however, has chosen to see it the way she wants, even though I've publically stated I think she's a christian.1 I can only assume that for Cheryl's own vindication she wants me to go against my convictions and apologize to her for what I believe.  I cannot in good conscience do that.

I have not enjoyed spending the time and energy in preparing this defense of myself and documentation of Cheryl's "issues".  I do not want to injure her or destroy her ministry to cults -- even though she has tried to injure CARM.  I had hoped it wouldn't come to this. I've tried to ignore Cheryl.  I've hoped she'd just give up.  I've tried to explain myself, but she wouldn't have anything to do with it.  I made a correction on the radio in order to properly represent her but because I didn't "apologize" properly, she continued to go after me.  She's been persistent, accusatory, and she's misrepresented what I've said.  So, I'm forced to defend myself.



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  1. From a post I made on the CARM discussion boards to which Cheryl Responded.

    "List EXACTLY what sin you're accusing me of. Make it good.

    Btw, I think that your teaching on women as pastors and elders is heretical.

    Look at dictionary.com. Heresy.....

    1. opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system. 2.the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine. 3.Roman Catholic Church. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church. 4.any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

    Now... wim, are you a Christian? sure. Are you at variance with orthodoxy in the women as pastors and elders thing? you betcha. You continue to maintain that doctrine in error. You speak in contradiction to the historical (and biblical position)."

    http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v/showthread.php?p=3364742#poststop

 

 

 

 
 
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