Condemning words and pompous attitude
This dialogue occurred on paltalk (paltalk.com, a voice chat system), in a private text message box. The conversation was initiated by this woman who did not like it that a person was red dotted (speaking and writing privileges were removed) because she so consistently insults people wherever she goes.
The person in the following dialogue sought me out and began the conversation as it is here. I tried to respond and be respectful, but you will see that she did not return the favor.
All the names were changed except mine.
Gale: You made trashing remarks about her . . . and she was red dotted for far less . . . just as I was.
Matt: Perhaps you are unaware of her--her history, etc. Are you familiar with her history here on paltalk?
Gale: I don't care what her history is. I care about FAIRNESS. If she is red dotted for her remarks about you then you should be red dotted for attacking her. You put yourself at the same level as Jim who is obviously a bigot.
Matt: So, you don't care about the facts? Just so you know, Chris always insults me and others . . . every chance she gets. She constantly does that, unprovoked, every time I enter a room. She is known to be a troublemaker. She is known to be rude and insulting.
Gale: Facts? What facts? If you can't defend your views then your views need scrutiny.
Matt: She has simply earned the need to be dotted.
Gale: I saw nothing insulting . . . only her opinion . . . which I happen to share . . . that YOU are a fake.
Matt: Okay. So why am I a fake? A fake means "not real." So, can you clarify?
Gale: Your views are bigoted and often unChristian . . . and usually contra-Scriptural . . . I've observed you, too.
Matt: Which views are those?
Gale: You are a fake Christian . .that is, you claim to be a Christian, but your actions say otherwise.
Matt: What actions are those?
Gale: You often act in vicious unChristian manner.
Matt: Can you please be more specific?
Gale: I've seen you attack others for their views . . . especially Catholics . . . where is that Christian behavior?
Matt: Can you please give me an example?
Gale: Sure. You attacking Sothe7
Matt: I am awaiting specifics . . .
Gale: You "pretend" to not be a Calvinist . . . yet, your views pretty much run in that vein . . . like you are ashamed to wear that label.
Matt: I do not pretend to not be a Calvinist. I openly state I am and defend it on occasion.
Gale: specifics? you already know your behavior . . . I'm not a tape recorder . . . I usually discount anything you say as babble . . . since you have almost no understanding of Scripture. You do pretend to be not Calvinist. I've seen you do it.
Gale: Calvinism is completely unbiblical. PROVE to me that YOU are among the "elect" . . . PROVE it.
Matt: I just stated I was a Calvinist in that room, did I not? May I ask how old you are?
Matt: I'm surprised.
Gale: PROVE to me that YOU are among the "elect" . . . PROVE it. Surprised that I do not buy in to horse crap theology?
Matt: How do you want me to prove it to you?
Gale: Any way you can.
Matt: I don't know your presuppositions. Therefore, "proofs" might not work for you.
Gale: Believing does NOT constitute proof.
Matt: Since you are hostile, I doubt anything I offered would suffice. Are you a Trinitarian?
Gale: I am not hostile . . . I'm just not a sucker. I am a Catholic . . . there is my theology.
Matt: My apologies, but it seems to me that you are hostile to me and what I believe.
Gale: Catholics are Trinitarians.
Matt: May I ask if you are going to heaven or not?
Gale: I am never hostile . .no need to be I hope in my salvation and WORK toward it as called for in Scripture. Need the verses? Romans 8:24. No one is "elect".
Matt: So, you do not know if you are saved? Why not?
Gale: We are ALL given sufficient grace to obtain our personal salvation. You are NOT saved. In fact, your views have you on a path to hell. You incorporate HATE as part of your beliefs . . . HATE is a cardinal sin that DAMNS souls.
Matt: Well, 1 John 5:13 says that I can know I have eternal life. Since I have trusted in Christ alone for my salvation and in nothing of my own effort, I trust Christ and believe that what He said is truth--that He gives me eternal life.
Gale: That would be fine if that were the sum total of Christ's teaching . . . but, its not. I have personally witnessed you committing acts of hate . . . even tonight.
Matt: Okay, could you please tell me what acts of hate I committed tonight?
Gale: Sure. You "trashed" Chris and you failed to communicate to Jim & Pete that they have no business red dotting souls simply because that soul either disagrees with them or defends some one or a view they find distasteful . . . that is hate by omission
Matt: Excuse me, but as soon as I entered the room, Chris said that I was a fake. She got red dotted which was not my doing. I then said that she has "issues." So, how is that hate?
Gale: I was red dotted simply for defending Chris . . . by asking why they did not red dot you
Matt: I cannot tell you why they do what they do. I can only speak for myself.
Gale: Its hate because you made mention of it in public . . . you "trashed" her in front of others . . . is that a Christian act? no . . . you DAMNED well better speak out against injustice . . . that is the hate you manifest.
Matt: Do you mind if I put this dialogue up on my website? I'll change your name so no one will know it is you.
Gale: Be my guest.
Matt: Thanks, I will. If I said that she has "issues" shows that I was hateful, then is her saying that I am a fake also a hateful thing? Yes, it sure is. It was wrong.
Matt: I am glad that you admitted that.
Gale: Your web site is probably mostly visited by those who kiss your a** . . . and they are of no consequence to me.
Matt: As I have already said, she is very antagonistic towards me. I honestly don't know why, but she obvious has some issues she needs to deal with.
Gale: If she is antagonistic . . . why not seek to resolve the differences in a CHRISTLIKE manner? Like prayer . . . like private conversations, like finding out why she feels the way she does. Speaking of prayer . . . would you please describe your daily prayer life for me?
Matt: I have asked her what her problem is, and she simply insults me. Whenever I go into a room where she is, she immediately begins to insult me. I was forced to put her on ignore. She wouldn't explain to me what her problem is. So, why bother? Obviously, as I said before, she has some issues she needs to deal with.
Gale: Keep asking . . . and use prayer . . . oh, I forgot . . . since everything is PREDETERMINED . . . prayer is of no value . . . sorry, I'm not hip to Calvinism.
Matt: You do not understand Calvinism. We believe that prayer is very important and that it has an influence with God, per James 5:16. Perhaps you might want to study it more before you attack it. Just a suggestion.
Gale: Haven't you ever read Paul's accounts of his ministry?
Matt: Of course I have read them.
Gale: How can prayer be important if everything is predetermined by God's will?
Matt: Let's leave the Calvinism discussion for another time, okay?
Gale: I have no use for Calvinism
Matt: You can dismiss Calvinism if you choose, but at least understand it before you do. So far, it seems that you have a false understanding of what it is.
Gale: 4-5 years ago Sothe7 was determined to lead me OUT of Catholicism and into Calvinism . . . I attended her entrance into the Church and first Holy Communion . . . so, that should alert you as to the strength of my convictions . . . I have the Truth in the full risen Jesus . . . no rotted soul in hell is going to draw me from Christ.
Matt: Well, my concern is that you know Christ and not put your trust in anything else, especially your own works. Salvation is by grace through faith and not by anything you add to it. My opinion of Roman Catholicism hasn't changed. I still believe it has "issues."
Gale: My own works will determine my fate . . . just as your will.
Matt: From your own words, I think you are not saved. Sorry, but that is what I believe.
Gale: Catholicism is the True Church given to us by Jesus.
Matt: The Bible says that we are saved apart from our works, Rom. 3:28.
Gale: Your opinion is of no value to me . . . in fact your opinion makes YOU a hypocrite.
Matt: Then please respond to Rom. 3:28, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Also, Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified." It seems that God's word contradicts yours. Which one do you want me to believe?
Gale: Again, if that were the sole teaching of Christ . . . it would stand as the final fact . . . truth is . . . you must take the entire teaching of Christ as a whole . . . not snippets.
Matt: The whole does not contradict itself.
Gale: My words do not contradict the teachings of Christ.
Matt: All the cults add their works to salvation: Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. If you add anything to the work of Christ (your own works), then from what I understand in scripture, you are not saved.
Gale: I do not claim to be "saved" . . . I am, as Scripture teaches . . . working out my salvation in fear and trembling.
Matt: You are seeking to be justified, in part, by your works. Because of that, you will not be saved. You must rely on Jesus alone--not Jesus AND your works.
Gale: Jesus said to store up treasures in heaven . . . now just how do we get these treasures? The Scripture says that faith without works is DEAD . . . is this Truth?
Matt: Yes, it is true. The context is that those who SAY they have faith but have not works that kind of faith is useless. I have written about this at www.carm.org/questions/about-doctrine/are-we-justified-faith-romans-or-works-james.
Gale: Not interested in your web site. You have little of the Truth and a lot of fluff.
Matt: Well, I've studied the issue and written on it. You can reject it if you want.
Gale: I suggest you read Romans . . .
Matt: Romans? I love the books of Romans. I've taught it many times. In fact, here is a great verse in Romans. Rom. 5:1, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, . . . "
Gale: I reject your personal misunderstandings . . . I have the solid 2,000 year teachings of the Church to guide me. Apparently you have never really read Romans. Try reading it for CONTENT.
Matt: I have read it many times and taught out of it often. I strongly suggest you read Romans chapters 3 through 5. It will deal with your works' issue in relation to justification.
Gale: Why is your response limited to single verse quotes? Where is the full understanding? Doesn't Romans warn that we are JUDGED on our works . . . good and bad?
Matt: Single verse quotes? Interesting comment. We are judged for rewards--not for salvation.
Gale: Where in Scripture does it ever say that we are judged on our faith?
Matt: It does not say we are judged on our faith. Rom. 5:1 says, "Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Can you tell me what that means?
Gale: I'm not going to bother. That is a waste of my time. oh, so, a "saved" soul who is among the "elect" can have several abortions and she has no need to fear damnation?
Matt: Romans 6:1-3 and 1 John 2:4 refutes that error. Each speaks about NOT doing sinful things because we are saved.
Gale: Again, you pluck out a verse here and there that seem to support your view while ignoring the majority that disagree with you.
Matt: Then you admit that the verses I have quoted agree with what I am saying? Good.
Gale: What pomposity. Are you trying to tell me that "saved" women never have abortions?
Matt: But, I ask you what a verse means. You do not tell me, and then you say I am pompous.
Gale: Or is it that abortions are NOT sins for the "elect"?
Matt: I cannot tell you what women do or do not do. I can only tell you what the Bible says about being saved.
Gale: I do not disagree with any verse of Scripture . . . I do, however, disagree with misapplying them. You are side stepping my direct question for the second time. Are "saved" women damned for unrepented abortions or not?
Matt: Look, I am not going to argue the abortion women thing. I am trying to get you to tell me what the verses mean that I have raised.
Gale: I'm not interested in cherry picking pet verses with you . . . I have plenty of my own that will confound you.
Matt: I have already told you that the Bible warns against sinning for Christians.
Gale: I did not ask you to argue . . . I asked you a direct question.
Matt: Well, you can say what you want and ignore the verses and then call me names, but it isn't very productive on your part.
Gale: What is the consequence of sin?
Matt: Romans 6:23 says that it is death.
Gale: So, it the wages of sin is death (damnation) then a "saved" woman who has an unrepented abortion is in serious danger of damnation . . . true or false?
Matt: How can someone who is saved be damned?
Gale: You are pompous . . . over and over. Well, perhaps she isn't "saved" after all.
Matt: Can you please deal with the issue and not insult me?
Gale: I'm not insulting . . . stop acting pompous, and I'll stop making the comment.
Matt: If you can't be nice, I'll just end our conversation.
Gale: I'm nice . . . you just can not handle anyone who has the upper hand on you . . . you have to run and hide behind pomposity.
Matt: You want me to judge the salvation of a hypothetical woman in a hypothetical situation? She is YOUR invention; you tell me.
Gale: Deal with me . . . if you are strong enough . . . btw . . . you avoided another important direct question of mine . . . tell me about your personal daily prayer life.
Matt: This is not a discussion where I am going to allow myself to be interrogated by someone who can't explain scripture, who calls me names, and who avoids the issues I've raised. You are mistaken about this and need to focus on the issue--not the person. Your dislike for me is evident, and you simply want to find whatever you can to use against me. I have suggested that you read Romans 3 through 5 because it contradicts what you have told me about your works.
Gale: Let's see . . . You are relying on standard Calvinist tactic number one . . . run away and declare "victory".
Matt: I mean no offense; but since you have contradicted scripture regarding justification, I am forced to assume that you are not saved.
Gale: You have yet to prove to me that you are among the "elect."
Matt: Can you please stay on the topic at hand?
Gale: Sure. .I've asked you THREE questions none of which you have made any attempt at responding to . . . as for name calling . . . I find that your pompous attitude reeks whether you like it or not . . . btw . . . I'm not alone in that assessment of you.
Matt: I am sure there are many who agree with you about me. But, that is irrelevant.
Gale: Yes, it is, so, get over the pomposity . . . it does not serve you.
Matt: Could you read Romans 3 through 5, and then can we discuss it later?
Gale: While I read Romans for you . . . please respond to my questions.
Matt: I have responded to your questions.
Gale: 1) prove to me that you personally are among the "elect" . . . 2) how can a "saved" woman have an unrepented abortion and go to heaven? . . . 3) describe your personal daily prayer life.
Matt: I cannot prove to you that I am elect. It is something based on biblical principles that you do not accept.
Gale: Oh, so you don't KNOW if you are among the "elect" . . . you are GUESSING. You have not responded to my questions in the least . . . get off that POMPOUS, ASININE platform and act like an adult.
Matt: I have responded here and earlier, and you continue to insult me. Please, let me tell you that if you do it just once more, I'll politely end our conversation. If a woman is saved, will she want to have an abortion? Will she do that which is against God in such an egregious manner? And, I will not tell you about my personal life. That is between the Lord and myself.
Gale: "Saved" women have abortions in this country every day. You can't describe your personal daily prayer life because you simply do not have one . . . that makes you a LIAR to me. How's that for strong words? Are you ASHAMED of how little you pray?
Matt: Okay, well, I can see that you will not be polite. So, I politely now end our conversation. Please consider how you have done in this conversation. You can review it on my site shortly.
Matt: Good bye.
(At this point I terminated the dialogue, but she continued with the following to which I did not respond).
Gale: You don't pray because Calvinists are arrogant and conceited and see themselves ABOVE prayer . . . admit it.
Gale: No, I'm not polite . . . but, I know what the Lord expects from us and it sure as HELL isn't your pompous, arrogant little conceit . . . the Lord expects us to FOLLOW HIM . . . not Calvin . . . grow some ***** and talk to me . . . I am waiting for you to act like A BELIEVER.
Unfortunately, this person was difficult to deal with, and I tried to remain polite and focused during our conversation. She continued to be insulting, so it was time to end the conversation.
She accused me of many things which reminded me of Romans 2:1, "Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."
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