Dialogue with Scott Hoffstee who claims to be one of the two witnesses of Revelation
Palktalk (www.paltalk.com) is an excellent voice chat system that also has text chat ability. I was in charge in a paltalk discussion room teaching Christian theology when Scott Hofstee came in. Scott claims to be one of the two witnesses of the book of Revelation, and he has made a prophecy concerning Nov. 20, 2002. Nevertheless, he quickly became crass, so I removed his voice and text privileges in the public chat room. A few minutes later, in a private message to him, I asked if he would like to be able to communicate in the room again and that if he did, he'd need to be polite. He responded with the following opening line in our private text dialogue. As you read through, you will see how sad this person really is. I have blocked out his foul language. One more thing, he gave me permission to post this whole dialogue--as is stated in the text below.
[Comments in brackets like this in the dialogue were added after the dialogue was finished and are for clarification.]
Scott Hofstee: Take your offer you pharisaical ******* and shove ********. Any questions?
Matt Slick: So what is going to happen on Nov. 20, 2002?
Scott Hofstee: Read it cult expert and await the beginning of your end.
Matt Slick: Do you believe Jesus is God in flesh?
Scott Hofstee: Listen idiot stick. Jesus is not God. God is in Jesus. Big difference. Your paganism is from the devil.
Matt Slick: So, then . . . the trinity is false, too?
Scott Hofstee: You have no idea who Jesus is because you you have never met him.
Matt Slick: Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in?
Scott Hofstee: The trinity is error.
Matt Slick: Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in?
Scott Hofstee: LOL [this means Laugh Out Loud]
Matt Slick: I'm just asking what you believe.
Scott Hofstee: Better ask him. Can you hear his voice or do you just follow the paper Jesus? All you know of him is what you have imagined in your bible. Unless the spirit of God is revealing you cant.
Matt Slick: Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in? Can you please answer the question? I'm trying to politely ask you what you believe about Jesus regarding this. Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in?
Scott Hofstee: Matt of course he did. The body was changed because even the disciple didn't recognize him as they were walking with him. It simple.
Matt Slick: I would disagree with it being changed. It was glorified. Jesus rose in the same body He died in. He retained the wounds in His hands, etc.
Scott Hofstee: Of course he did. But His body was glorified. But it had changed. The glory automatically changes.
Matt Slick: Now, how are we saved from our sins?
Scott Hofstee: Through Jesus. Of course he is the way the truth and the life. No man come to the Father but by HIM. He is the only path. Any other way and you are liar and thief belief and faith in his sacrifice and the fathers resurrection of HIM.
Matt Slick: What do you mean, "through Jesus"? Must you be baptized to be saved? So who or what is Jesus? Is He a man right now?
Scott Hofstee: He is man in whom the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily and to whom has been given all authority in Heaven and Earth.
Matt Slick: Is Jesus a man right now? right NOW?
Scott Hofstee: Matt he's a male
Matt Slick: I'll take that as a yes.
Scott Hofstee: LOL Of course he is
Matt Slick: But, you deny that Jesus is God in flesh.
Scott Hofstee: There is only one God and its not Jesus.
Matt Slick: . . . and Jesus is not God. He is a man with God "in" Him, right?
Scott Hofstee: Jesus was preexistent with the Father. He proceeded forth from HIM and created all that is.
Matt Slick: Was Jesus an angel or something?
Scott Hofstee: An angel in the sense that He was a messenger
Matt Slick: Jesus created all that is?
Scott Hofstee: Yes. But he created all angels through the power of the father.
Matt Slick: So, Jesus was pre existent. Was he a created thing?
Scott Hofstee: He was created before ALL that was created and created all thereafter. The Father created it through HIM because the logos was IN HIM completely. At the appointed time he took on humanity in order to atone for sins of mankind.
Matt Slick: Was Jesus a created thing before he became a man?
Scott Hofstee: Of course. He appeared in the OT many times.
Matt Slick: Okay, so then, Jesus was a created thing according to you. I am just being clear. Got a question for you.
Scott Hofstee: Yes.
Matt Slick: God says in Isaiah 44:24 that He created the heavens and the earth alone. How could it be that Jesus created all things if Jesus is not God but a created thing?
Scott Hofstee: He proceeded forth from the bosom of the Father. Very simple. The same way the apostles healed the sick. The power of God coursed thru them. They were a conduit. Jesus was even much more than they.
Matt Slick: But it says that God did it alone. That would mean that Jesus didn't do it . . . if Jesus is not God.
Scott Hofstee: He was the house that the Father dwelled in FULLY. Matt his power alone created it. Jesus in Rev 3:14 described himself. It doesn't diminish him at all. It makes what he did on the cross and in this earth even more awesome. He overcame ever obstacle, every temptation as a man like us. That was 100 percent submitted to God
Matt Slick: It doesn't say it was His power alone that created. It says that God created alone. Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone."
Scott Hofstee: The Father fully resided in HIM. So too was Jesus a complete visible image of the invisible God.
Matt Slick: Then you have no true incarnation. You deny that the Word that WAS God and became flesh [John 1:1, 14]. Instead, you have the Father "in" Christ.
Scott Hofstee: They are ONE.
Matt Slick: Without a true incarnation, there is no true atonement. You are dead in your sins. Jesus said, "Unless you believe that I AM" you will die in your sins." (John 8:24).
Scott Hofstee: The word is the thoughts of God. They were in Christ.
Matt Slick: So, the thoughts of God ARE God? The things that are OF God ARE God?
Scott Hofstee: Well tell me what God looks like. Tell me his shape.
Matt Slick: God thinks thoughts. Thoughts are not Him. They are His thoughts.
Scott Hofstee: LOL You think he is sitting on literal throne in Heaven?
Matt Slick: You deny the incarnation; and according to Jesus' own words, you are lost. In Exodus 3:14, God said "And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you."
Matt Slick: Jesus said in John 8:24 that "Unless you believe that I AM, you will die in your sins."
Scott Hofstee: No matt your Walter Martin logic don't work. A lot of people don't understand the trinity and they re saved in your book. LOL. No where does it say that you believe in the trinity you will be saved. LOL You have added to the counsel of God and begun to preach another cursed gospel.
Matt Slick: I do not believe you know God. Jesus reveals the Father (Matt. 11:27); and without the true Jesus, you will not know the truth Father.
Scott Hofstee: Hey Matt I know the father because Jesus introduced me to HIM.
Matt Slick: Can you quickly tell me exactly what the gospel is? I'm curious.
Scott Hofstee: I was a Trinitarian like you for 34 years. Trinitarianism is pagan in its origin and you are therefore a false teacher which only further reveals the fact that you don't know the TRUTH who Jesus is
Matt Slick: I have a lot of info on the trinity as in www.carm.net/christianity/christian-doctrine/trinity, etc. But, can you please tell me exactly what the gospel is? Well, I'd be glad to debate you on who Jesus is sometime. But for now, can you quickly tell me exactly what the gospel is?
Scott Hofstee: LOL The gospel is contained in Jesus matt. I have presented it to you.
Matt Slick: Okay, but what IS the Gospel?
Scott Hofstee: He is the way unto the Father and that happens by knowing him.
Matt Slick: Can you please tell me what the gospel is? Can you tell me what it is according to scripture?
Scott Hofstee: He said my sheep hear my voice and another they will not follow. So to know him you must believe He is the one in whom salvation is contained.
Matt Slick: Yes, I know, but can you quickly tell me exactly what the gospel is?
Scott Hofstee: His sinless life was a perfect sacrifice.
Matt Slick: Yes, I know all that. Can you quickly tell me exactly what the gospel is?
Scott Hofstee: That was presented unto the father. He became sin. The object of the fathers wrath toward sin that we might have life. Believe in that, then follow HIM and submit your life as a living sacrifice and you will live the gospel, the good news. LOL Matt one thing I know is that you know everything. One needs only to ask you.
Matt Slick: 1 Cor. 15:1-4 tells us that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. You mentioned sacrifice. That is good. But, you didn't really get it. 2 Cor. 4:3-4 says, "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
Matt Slick: It is you who is the false teacher. You deny the incarnation. You deny that Jesus is God. You deny that Jesus is the "I AM." You, therefore, do not know God the Father and are a false teacher. Now, how would you like to debate whether or not Jesus is God in flesh? We can do it on paltalk. I am sure it will draw a large crowd. Are you interested?
Scott Hofstee: Hey matt. I couldn't care less about crowds. Your the ego maniac. I'm here to talk to you.
Matt Slick: Good. Then you won't mind it when people listen to your side of the issue as we debate it.
Scott Hofstee: All these people have heard what I have said a dozen times. I'm on here and teach very openly. Its well known what I believe.
Matt Slick: I want to have a public discussion with you on the deity of Christ for all to hear.
Scott Hofstee: Then drop in our room any time.
Matt Slick: In your room I am treated very poorly.
Scott Hofstee: LOL You are treated as I am.
Matt Slick: I gave you a chance in my room, and you abused it and were very crass.
Scott Hofstee: LOL
Matt Slick: When I go into your rooms, I am mocked.
Scott Hofstee: You are an idiot thus you are mocked.
Matt Slick: When someone red dotted you in my room, I requested that it be removed. [red dot removes speaking and text privileges in the room]
Scott Hofstee: If you weren't dead to this world it wouldn't matter.
Matt Slick: Now, I challenge you to a public debate on the deity of Christ.
Scott Hofstee: I have had every manner of thing spoken about me in this room tonight.
Matt Slick: Do you accept my challenge to a debate?
Scott Hofstee: Take your challenge and shove it up your a** pee wee. Your challenge means nothing to me.
Matt Slick: I'll take that as a no.
Scott Hofstee: then you are one perceptive ba***rd. LOL. You come into my turf.
Matt Slick: Col. 3:8 says, "But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth."
Scott Hofstee: Don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm mad at you. Let me tell you this. The Lord is mad at you and I'm here to tell you.
Matt Slick: You mean you are NOT mad at me, and you speak so badly? So, the LORD uses cuss words?
Scott Hofstee: You are going to have your life flipped upside down in a short time. Yeah he uses the words ******, ***, dung which is ****. Toughen up buttercup. You think the Lord is like you?. You are a *****.
Matt Slick: Well, since you won't accept my challenge to debate what you believe and since you continue to insult me, perhaps we should continue this at another time.
Scott Hofstee: He aint anything like you. You run around with your degree and suppose you are speaking for the Lord. You speak for yourself you arrogant *******.
Matt Slick: Perhaps you need to read Col. 4:5-6 and 1 Tim. 1:5. They are good scriptures. [These are listed at the end of this dialogue].
Scott Hofstee: And I'm her to tell you your days of speaking for the Lord as though you were sent are about done. Remember this night.
Matt Slick: Really? So, what is going to happen? Are you threatening me?
Scott Hofstee: No ******. The Lord is telling you. You are about done and what is the Lord saying. He is going to bring you to your knees and humiliate you.
Matt Slick: If He brings me to my knees and humiliates me, I will be most grateful. It would be a great blessing.
Scott Hofstee: You will have a choice to repent of being a Pharisee or harden your heart and be destroyed. Your false humility doesn't fool the Lord. He sees your heart. He sees past your pompous words
Matt Slick: And, YOU are God's messenger?
Scott Hofstee: I am indeed
Matt Slick: Is it not true that you claim to be one of the two witnesses of Revelation?
Scott Hofstee: It is absolutely true
Matt Slick: How do you know you are one of the two witnesses of Revelation?
Scott Hofstee: LOL Very easy. The Father sent me and told me thru His SON Jesus. How does a man know anything about himself except thru Jesus. How did Jesus know who He was?
Matt Slick: Well, since you have a false Jesus, I will conclude you do not know Jesus and that you are not speaking for God and that you are not one of the two witnesses of Revelation.
Scott Hofstee: How did Peter know who Jesus was? LOL. Bad math matt. LOL
Matt Slick: I wish I could post this dialogue on my website.
Scott Hofstee: LOL. Matt please do. I wish you would.
Matt Slick: Okay
Scott Hofstee: Matt i know a few things you don't.
Matt Slick: Such as?
Scott Hofstee: I know from where I came. I know when I am speaking to one of the Fathers servants in a second because the Father reveals them. He has told me for a certainty you are not HIS. You sent yourself. HE NEVER SENT YOU. Therefore you are of the devil.
Matt Slick: Thank you.
Scott Hofstee: But you have hope.
Matt Slick: My hope is in Jesus--not in you.
Scott Hofstee: You can repent of your lies and your filth.
Matt Slick: You are full of hatred and foul speech and condemnation.
Scott Hofstee: Well what a coincidence. He is my master and has me speaking to you. Well my friend if you weren't walking in the flesh you couldn't be condemned. But because you are walking in the flesh you are totally condemned.
Matt Slick: You know, you really are one of the more interesting cultists I've ever dialogued with.
Scott Hofstee: I'm no cultist. Your carnality is at enmity with God. Matt . . . I cannot fit into any or your models of a cult because we have no cult.
Matt Slick: Look, I need to get going because this dialogue is getting nowhere now. I am convinced that you are lost and self-deceived.
Scott Hofstee: LOL
Matt Slick: I am convinced that you do not have Jesus and that you preach a false god.
Scott Hofstee: Matt remember my words. Your road to Damascus experience is at the door what will you do when you meet the real Jesus and not the one of your vain imagination?
Matt Slick: I am convinced that you are filled with a false spirit. So, it was nice talking to you and very informative to have you verify from your own mouth (fingers) your error.
Scott Hofstee: Matt. You don't get it.
Matt Slick: I will let others know that you refused to debate me and that you called me lots of names.
Scott Hofstee: We don't care about what you would consider negative publicity.
Matt Slick: You have not shown the fruit of the Spirit of God.
Scott Hofstee: I'm debating you right here you moron. You have a lengthy dialogue demonstrating such.
Matt Slick: . . . as I said . . . insults and name calling. I am sure we will meet again.
Scott Hofstee: Names like Jesus used
Matt Slick: Till then,
Scott Hofstee: Snake
Matt Slick: Later.
Scott Hofstee: White washed tomb. Fool. Hypocrite. Matthew 23. Its all about you. Study it. It foretells of your fate.
Matt Slick: 2 Cor. 11:3-4, "But I am afraid, lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 4For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully." Bye
As you can see, this person is quite deluded. He is full of hatred and condemnation as well as a false understanding of who Jesus is. Since he has a false god and false christ, it explains why he is so quick to swear and demonstrate the lack of the Spirit of God.
Above, I referenced a couple verses that I though Mr. Hofstee should focus on. They are
- Col. 4:5-6,"Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. 6Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned, as it were, with salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person."
- 1 Tim. 1:5, "But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith."
If this person were a Christian, the Spirit of God would convict him of his errors and attempt to bring him to a consistent behavior with scripture.
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