With a Mormon on Mormon Doctrine
This dialogue begins after a Mormon was telling me that I didn't know Mormon theology. I was amazed to find out how little he knew of his own faith, especially since he claimed he had been a Mormon bishop at one time. Anyway, let's jump into the conversation.
Matt: Did God used to live on another world? Was god once a man? Does god have a wife? Can we become gods?
Hank: Was he a man?
Matt: Do you not know yourself.
Hank: I know that god dwelled in Jesus Christ. It says that in the Bible.
Matt: Look, www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/what-does-mormonism-teach has a list of their doctrines documented from MORMON writers .
Hank: That is a anti-Mormon site. Its on our block list.
Matt: I see. Don't look at the facts. Anyway, I have done the research.
Hank: Well its blocked by 100 percent of our members.
Matt: Then you block out the facts. Your leaders don't want you to know the history and facts of your church. Why is that?
Hank: The prophet considered your site as anti doctrinal.
Matt: Which of these teachings are false? There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.; God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333.; God resides near a star called Kolob, Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.; God the Father had a Father, Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105.; God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3.; God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22. Which of these teachings are false?
Matt: All are false? Wow . . . then your prophets are all wrong. Amazing. You know, you just said that the DC is wrong. Do you know more than your Mormon leaders?
Hank: I am a leader. Do I know more than myself?
Matt: You said it was all false.
Hank: It is false what you wrote
Matt: If it is all false, then you are calling Mormon doctrine false. You mean it is false that God used to be a man on another world? "God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321. Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, Vol. 5, pp. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 345, Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 333." This is from your churches writers and teachers.
Hank: Excommunicated writers probably.
Matt: Joseph Smith was excommunicated? Was Brigham Young also excommunicated?
Hank: No but most of his family was. That is where you're getting these false writings.
Matt: Smith and Young wrote these things. I got these false writings from your church--from their bookstore. This is all published by the Mormon Church. If you are a teacher of Mormonism, how is it you don't know these things? Again, Mormonism teaches this: "God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3." Is that right or wrong?
Hank: That is not doctrine.
Matt: Okay, is God in the form of a man or not? Please tell me.
Hank: He is a spirit
Matt: Does God have a body of flesh and bones?
Hank: He can if he wanted.
Matt: God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22, "The father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us." There it is from here . . . http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/130. So, you deny official Mormon scripture and teaching. As I said earlier, you do not know Mormonism very well. You err in its doctrines . . . yet you are a teacher???
Hank: Don't even give me a chance to break out the scriptures. How lame.
Matt: You said you knew LDS doctrine. I asked you. You got it wrong. Check it out for yourself. I will wait for you to confirm it.
Hank: What verse in 130?
Matt: It is a web link. Paste it in your browser and check it out.
Hank: I am there. What verse?
Matt: Doctrine and Covenants 130:22, "The father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us."
Hank: I got the whole page up. Hold on. You're confused. Its talking about Jesus Christ when the father dwelled within him when he was resurrected.
Matt: No, I am not confused, it says, "The father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as mans . . . " This means that the Father has a body of flesh and bones which is exactly what I said Mormonism teaches. Go ask your bishop.
Hank: You're not reading the whole thing.
Matt: You mean the whole things says that the Father does NOT have a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's?
Hank: You're comparing one verse to a entirely different than what it actually means.
Hank: The Bible says I am in the father and the father is within me and I am flesh and bones as any tangible man this reference is from Jesus Christ.
Matt: I see. So the verse means that God does NOT have a body of flesh and bones?
Hank: God the Father is Sprit just like we are and yes if he wanted to consume a body he could. He is God.
Matt: I think you need to do more research on Mormon theology.
Hank: God is the maker of all things.
Matt: The issue is that LDS theology says he has a body of flesh and bones.
Hank: I think you need to go somewhere else with your teachings.
Matt: Also, ask your bishop if God has a wife? Do you believe that God has a wife as Mormonism teaches?
Hank: Ask myself? Oh wow. This is getting interesting.
Matt: You're a bishop?
Hank: I was a bishop and still am until I leave this earth with our Father and accept my new calling.
Matt: Well, Bishop, you apparently are unaware of Mormon theology. I seriously suggest you check out the site at www.carm.org. It has the documentation.
Hank: You're not only considered an apostate, you find things about other religions and do this to them too right?
Matt: Look, I was never a Mormon. I am a Christian. Here is the url to documentation on Mormon doctrines. www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/what-does-mormonism-teach
Hank: And god sent you to go out and destroy other churches and your site even has things of the bible that you people says are incorrect.
Matt: God wants Christians to teach the truth. Mormonism is not the truth.
Hank: If that's your faith then so be it.
Matt: You erred on basic Mormon doctrine. How much else are you not aware of?
Hank: I am aware of that your teachings are false.
Matt: I haven't taught you anything yet. I have only repeated Mormon doctrine to you, and you have said I am false. So, that means that you condemn Mormon theology.
Hank: On that site.
Matt: I thought you said my site was forbidden by the LDS church? Have you disobeyed your church and examined my site? Or are you judging it without having looked at the facts?
Matt: God does not bring confusion. But the devil does deceive. It is you who is confused about LDS doctrine. Let me ask you something: Who is the God of this World?
Hank: Satan has closed your eye's to the true Church because in the Bible it says there is only one True Church and he built it on a rock. The true church fell to apostasy.
Matt: Where does the Bible says that?
Hank: When the 12 apostles got killed
Matt: Where does it say that in the Bible? Or are you just listening to what the LDS churches teaches you without checking it out? I await for biblical proof of your statement.
Hank: Your funny.
Matt: I am serious. Do you have an answer?
Hank: Without looking it up right at this moment with my baby in my arms no. Why are you asking me for the answers?
Matt: I ask you to back up what you say from the Bible.
Hank: Who is our Father in heaven?
Matt: God, not our literal father. Also, the Trinity is not three gods as Mormonism teaches. The Bible says there is only one God. But Mormonism teaches there are many gods . . . Mormon Doctrine, p. 163. Isaiah 43:10 says, "You are My witnesses, declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, and there will be none after Me." Therefore, you cannot become a god as Mormonism erringly teaches.
Hank: The trinity is 1 god
Matt: Correct. In Mormonism, however, it is three gods: the god called Elohim or the Father; Jesus is a god; and the Holy Ghost is a god. That is three gods. Also, do you believe you can become a god?
Hank: They are one in purpose. They act the same. So its 1 god. And yes, I believe we can become like god.
Matt: Mormonism says there are three separate gods. Don't you know this?
Hank: They're talking about the trinity. God the father. God the son and God the Holy Spirit. So its all in how you understand it
Matt: Are there three gods or not?
Hank: There are 3 deities in the Godhead yes. They act as one in spirit. It says that in the Bible bud. Want to bible thump me some more?
Matt: So, Mormonism DOES teach there are three gods. Again, I am right about LDS doctrines.
Hank: We have the priesthood of Melchizedek. We teach the truth.
Matt: I've written about the priesthood on CARM . . . just so you know, only Jesus holds the Melchizedek priesthood.
Hank: Jesus gave the priesthood to John the Baptist, idiot. And john baptized Jesus.
Matt: I see, so now you are going to call me names? I think our conversation is over. When you insult me, our dialogue is finished. Thanks.
Matt: I hope you find the real Jesus.
Matt: You don't have Him now.
This is not one of the better dialogues I've had with Mormons. But, it is apparent that this guy didn't know Mormon doctrine very well. I've found that to be the case more than once that Mormons really don't know what their church is teaching. In fact, I've actually had some Mormons refuse to believe me when I told them what Mormons really taught. I bet they were surprised when they found out I was right.
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