Dialogue with a Mormon on Joseph Smith and the Gospel
This dialogue occurred after I tackled Mormonism in a Mormon chat room. This extracted dialogue represents an unfortunately typical response from Mormons: they are often too afraid to look at the facts.
Craig: You know it's funny how you think Joseph Smith was boasting about doing more for the Church than Christ. When every time I enter in a room where you're talking about the Church of Jesus Christ you boast about how you made some weak elder go home from his mission. I think it's funny because you think you're right and Joseph Smith is wrong. No answers . . . hmm . . . to busy promoting your book?
Matt: You are not facing the issue of Smith. You cannot reduce his offense by making something up about me.
Craig: 4 hours later
Matt: The fact is there . . . check it out for yourself.
Craig: You never gave the reference
Matt: Never? History of the church, vol. 6:408-409. Here is the link. http://www.carm.org/lds/docs/HC_v6_408-9.htm
Craig: I wouldn't go near your website. Full of all manner of false doctrine.
Matt: If you don't go near it, how do you know it is false? Check out the reference for yourself. That link is nothing more than a word-for-word reproduction of the quote IN CONTEXT. The quote is accurate.
Craig: Just don't want to pollute my brain with trash.
Matt: Your 'prophet' boasted he did more than even Jesus to keep a church together. It is nothing more than a quote from YOUR history of the church--a direct quote . . . from YOUR writers, and you won't even look . . . you call it trash.
Craig: No I am calling your site trash, which it is. One of 1000s.
Matt: I see . . . and have you checked it out?
Craig: Of course have. I've talked with you dozens of times, Matt.
Matt: And what part of the site is false? Can you tell me?
Matt: I see.
Craig: It's just a distorted twist of facts.
Matt: So you have nothing to go one . . . just your prejudice.
Craig: The whole thing. Same as all of them.
Matt: I see . . .
Craig: You say the book of Mormon says one thing, and the bible says the other.
Matt: And so.. God does NOT come from another planet according to Mormonism?
Craig: You say the book of Mormon says one thing and our doctrine says another
Matt: God does NOT have a goddess wife, according to Mormonism?
Craig: It's a childish joke.
Matt: You DON'T need 3 handshakes in a temple ceremony to become a god?
Craig: God lives near Kolob. God has a wife. I won't talk about the ceremony. So don't go there.
Matt: Wow . . . Amazing. You are a polytheist . . . in contradiction to the Bible.
Craig: LOL. Nope.
Matt: The BOM [Book of Mormon] does not have essential Mormon Doctrine in it.
Craig: I believe in God the Father, His son, and the Holy Ghost.
Matt: Where is exaltation in the book of Mormon? Where is the 3 degrees of glory in the BOM? Where is it that god has a wife?
Craig: You're talking about 2 different things.
Matt: Remember, according to Mormonism, the BOM is THE most correct book.
Craig: The doctrine you claim is not in the book of Mormon is doctrine given to Joseph Smith and found in his revelations in the D&C
Matt: Would you like to have a formal debate sometime with me?
Craig: Why bother, it wouldn't help. Like talking to a brick wall. Or swine to be more appropriate.
Matt: So now you insult me? Is this what Mormonism teaches you to do? Wow . . .
Matt: Your Jesus is false. He is not real.
Matt: Mormonism is a non-Christian cult. There is no 'restored' gospel. All the cults say the truth was lost and that THEIR church is the restored true church.
Craig: The apostasy happened 1900 years ago.
Matt: Jesus is not the brother of Satan.
Craig: So tell, the Catholic Church, is it the only true church on this earth?
Matt: You don't get it. There is no TRUE church on earth. The TRUE church is the body of TRUE believers--Not an earthly organization!!!
Matt: This is where ALL false churches miss the mark, Mormonism included.
Craig: Jesus organized a true church. It's in the bible. Read it.
Matt: Really? Where?
Craig: Jesus called who? 12 apostles. He called prophets after him.
Matt: Yeah.. .and what are the qualifications of being an apostle? Do you know?
Craig: He called priests, teachers, deacons.
Matt: Where are your pastors?
Matt: Eph. 3 and 4.
Craig: Pastor: Bishop. Same thing. LOL.
Matt: Mormonism teaches working your way to heaven. That is not biblical.
Craig: My sides hurt. Of course, following the works included in the Law of Christ.
Matt: Quick, tell me . . . what is the gospel?
Craig: Of Jesus Christ? Faith, Repentance, Baptism, Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands.
Matt: Are you sure?
Craig: Its what Christ taught.
Matt: The Bible tells us the Gospel by which we are saved . . . what is it? Following his law.
Matt: Okay . . . Hold on. "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Okay there it is, the gospel, 1 Cor. 15:1-4. You got it wrong.
Matt: Whatever? I just quoted 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and you say it is wrong? Wow . . . Want to know why you got it wrong? There is a reason . . . here it is.
Matt: 2 Cor. 4:3-4: "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."
He stopped dialoguing with me after this.
I think I could have been more polite in this dialogue. As I review it, I see where I could have improved in being courteous. May I learn better for the next time.
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