Cheryl Schatz deliberately lied at our meeting by denying she was emailing me as the abusive R.D. Clarke

by Matt Slick

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On August 22, 2008, I met with Cheryl Schatz in Boise, Idaho. Present in this meeting at a hotel was myself, Ryan Turner, Matt Marino (my pastor), her husband Richard, and her pastor Derwyn Costinak.

In Idaho it is legal to record a meeting with an audio recorder if at least one person knows it is being recorded. Both Ryan and Matt Marino knew I was doing this; I do not trust Cheryl and wanted to protect myself (Later she told me she recorded it, too). On this recording, I have Cheryl openly denying that she was e-mailing me as R.D. Clark. This, of course, is highly significant.

First of all, people often use different email accounts with pseudonyms.  That isn't the issue.  The problem is that she denied emailing me as R. D. Clarke (when she really was doing so).  In her email, as R. D. Clarke, on July 28, 2008 "Clarke" denied knowing Cheryl.  On 8/22/08, at the meeting, she again lied to me (and others present) and denied emailing me as R. D. Clarke.  This means that her lie was premeditated and continued for at least 25 days.  I believe the only reason she confessed the lie was because she got caught.  Remember, she lied in an email weeks earlier and never corrected it or confessed it.  On 8/22 when I presented the documentation she lied again.  Only after she realized that she was busted did she confess.

Now, in the R.D. Clarke emails Cheryl signed as Dr. R. D. Clarke.  At one point, when addressing me, she said that she deals with abusers almost ever day in her profession.  Really?  What profession does "Dr." R. D. Clarke practice?

  1. On August 22, 2008, at our meeting, when I confronted her with the evidence, she lied to me, her husband (Richard), her pastor (Derwyn Costinak), my pastor (Matt Marino), and Ryan Turner about emailing me as R. D. Clarke.
    1. The evidence consisted of numerous, abusive emails from R. D. Clarke which included such statements directed at me as "What you are doing is the classic piece of work I get from thieves, adulterers and abusers"; "Are you dealing with mental illness?"; "you are living in fear"; "You have willfully abused her by lying about her teaching and by attacking her character"; "I deal with abusers almost every day in my profession. Some are repentant and others are not. You are merely one of the "nots"; "You have willfully abused her by lying about her teaching and by attacking her character"; "you are acting as a bully to a woman";
    2. In addition were several attempts to try and meet with and talk over the phone my wife.  I told R.D. the same thing I told Cheryl, no way.  My wife has no respect for Cheryl and even said to a friend on the phone, "I believe she has mental problems."
  2. I traced the I.P. address from R. D. Clarke emails.  It matched the I.P. address from Cheryl Schatz on the CARM discussion boards.
  3. I obtained an email from Schatz' internet provider saying the I.P. address is unique to a person (to a computer).  This means that R.D. Clarke and she were using the same computer.
  4. When I asked R.D. Clarke, in an email on 7/28 if he/she was Cheryl Schatz, the response was:  "I already told you I didn't know her. It's up to you. Contact her and ask her if she knows me. The name is Randy Clarke."  and "I have already told you that I will not be contacting Ms. Schatz until I have finished with you."  See R. D. Clarke's emails where he states he is not Cheryl
  5. At our meeting, after she denied emailing me as R. D. Clarke, I presented the evidence and handed it to her pastor.  He looked at it and after several minutes told Cheryl it looked pretty bad for her.  She continued to lie -- right to his face.  I then said that after they got home, I could remote into her computer and check IP addresses to verify if she was or wasn't R. D. Clarke (Actually, it would only have proved they were from the same computer.)  But, she continued to lie even after this.  Here are the links that prove she lied.
    1. R.D. Clarke says he does not know Cheryl.
    2. R.D. Clarke and Cheryl Schatz use the same IP Address
    3. Cheryl Schatz deliberately lied at our meeting by denying she was emailing me as the abusive R.D. Clarke
  6. After the meeting, on her way back home with her pastor and husband, she confessed.  (She later called me and confessed her lie and apologized.)
  7. I firmly believe she confessed because she knew that she was busted and the truth would come out.  She had no choice.  Remember, she did not voluntarily confess for at least three weeks, until after the pressure was on and the facts came out.

This is the woman who claims she's understood 1 Tim. 2:15 when the entire church has not.  This is the woman who claims she acted impeccably with me.  She said, "You accuse me of not following scripture when I have followed it impeccably."

I must ask.  Is accusing me of multiple sins that are not true acting impeccably?  Is posing as someone else in emails and being abusive towards me in them acting impeccably? Is lying in those emails by denying it was really her also acting impeccably?  Is lying to my face, not to mention every one else in the meeting including her own pastor, acting impeccably according to scripture?  Nope.  What it is, is evidence of someone with a vindictive, deceptive heart who as she said, "will do whatever it takes".  She has lived out her words.  She has stalked me, needled me, misrepresented me, and lied to me and others.  Is this the behavior of someone who is walking in the light or is it evidence of darkness?

In my opinion, Cheryl Schatz is not to be trusted

In my opinion, Cheryl is a dangerous and deceptive person.  She is dangerous in that she undermines biblical orthodoxy regarding elders and pastors being male.  She is deceptive as I have already proven by catching her in an open and blatant lie that she held onto for several weeks before being exposed.  She has been spiteful and gone way overboard in her attempt at self vindication against even the slightest, perceived injustice.

I tried to ignore her and hoped she'd go away.  Instead, she persisted, wouldn't give up, and started emailing me under at least one pseudonym, and probably more. She has stalked me via emails, her blog, and made public accusations about me and accused me of various sins on my discussion boards.   She repeatedly sought out my wife even when I told her to stop trying to reach her.  She has purposefully lied to me, two pastors, and Ryan Turner about emailing me as R. D. Clarke.  Are these the qualities of a godly woman who is to be trusted to teach biblical theology?

Think about this.  What if this were a pastor who had openly lied in an email, did not repent, and then openly lied to other pastors about those same emails?  What if the person being accused tried to ignore him and asked him to stop accusing him and trying to reach his wife, but the pastor wouldn't?  Would that pastor be disqualified from ministry?  Should he be under church discipline?  Should that pastor be trusted to be ethical and competent enough to teach God's word?  Would that pastor be above reproach?

Answer the questions yourself.  My answer is that such a person is not qualified to teach God's word.  And, that is my opinion of Cheryl Schatz.

Be careful of Cheryl.  I believe that if you say something that she perceives as having wronged her, she might very well do the same thing to you that she has tried to do to me.  If that happens, be careful of what you say.  She has a tendency to "reinterpret" things and then accuse.


About The Author

Matt Slick is the President and Founder of the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.