On August 24, 2021, I debated Mr. Rodney Smith on whether or not God is a Trinity or just one person. The initial conversation lasted about 1.5 hours.  You can view it at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nd6tMgWq6Y. After our ‘official’ part of the debate was done, we then talked about other issues, because I was curious. I wanted to talk about justification. But this quickly led to a discussion on the Trinity again. It was then that I turned up the heat on him – after asking him if it was okay for me to do that.  He said that I could.  So, for about the last hour of the video, Mr. Smith spent a lot of time trying to explain away a serious theological problem that I presented to him.  Here is the paragraph that I ended up repeatedly asking him – to which an adequate response did not come.

God says He appears as God Almighty (Ex. 6:2-3; Gen. 17:1). According to you, it is the Father. Yet Jesus said that no one has seen the Father (John 6:46).  So, who were they seeing in the O.T. that is GOD ALMIGHTY but is not the Father?

This question got modified slightly as he tried to respond, but it was obvious that he could not answer it.  So, there you go.  You can watch the first hour to see the presentation and the last hour to see the area of difficulty for oneness people.

————– Opening Statement from Matt Slick ————– 

 

In the context of our debate tonight, the God of Christianity is either Trinitarian or Unitarian. He is either three eternal, simultaneous and distinct, persons, or he is a single eternal person.

The Trinity doctrine is that there is one God in three, simultaneous, eternal, and distinct persons. If Mr. Smith asserts in any way that the Trinity is three gods, then he is not arguing against the Trinity.

Define personhood

Definitions are important. We cannot determine if God is a Trinity of three persons or just one person, if we don’t define what we mean by persons. So, let me offer a definition of what it means to be a person, as well as some attributes of personhood.

“personhood. The unique status shared by human beings, angels and God that involves the power to think, act and value. Traditional theories of personhood stress that persons are substances of a rational nature. More contemporary theories emphasize the ability to act and have emotions, and these often link personhood to the ability to use language and relations to other persons.”¹Evans, C. Stephen. Pocket Dictionary of Apologetics  Philosophy of Religion (The IVP Pocket Reference Series) (p. 91). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.

Characteristics of personhood are such things as self-awareness and awareness of others, having a will, being able to love, being able to speak,

The Trinity Defined

There is only one God in all places in all time. There have been no gods before Him and there will be no gods after Him. He is the one and only uncreated, necessary, Trinitarian Being, eternally consisting of three simultaneous and distinct persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The three persons share the same divine essence, but express different functions in creation. Neither person derives his substance from either or both of the others.  In the Trinity are unity and diversity, which are equally basic and mutually dependent upon one another.

Plurality of God

In Genesis 1:26 God says “let us make man in our image…” The ‘us’ is plurality. It is not a metaphor or a royal self-declaration nor does it include the angels. We know this because God said in Isaiah 44:24, that He alone is the maker of all things. The continuation of the plural nature of God’s existence is seen in Genesis 11:7 God says, let us go down and confound their language…” In Genesis 19:24 it says that Yahweh rained fire and brimstone from Yahweh out of heaven. In Isaiah 48:16 it says, “From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.” In Exodus 6:2–3, “God spoke further to Moses and said to him, “I am the Lord [yhwh]; 3 and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, Lord, I did not make Myself known to them.” Yet, in John 6:46, Jesus said, “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.” In light of this, who were they seeing in the Old Testament who was God Almighty, but not God the Father? How would oneness theology, respond to this in light of the idea that Jesus distinguishes between the Father and Himself since HE is the one who has seen God the Father? He is distinguishing Himself from the Father. But how could that be if Jesus is the Father? The plurality of God is clearly seen in the Old Testament.

Jesus said in John 6:38-39, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.” Jesus said that He came down from heaven. He said He came down from heaven not to do his own will, but the will of Him who sent Him. This must mean that they each have a will – before Jesus became flesh.

We know this because Jesus says, that He came down from heaven to do the will of him who sent him. Notice that Jesus said “I.” In this, He is identifying as a person. Personhood is recognized by its attributes such as being self-aware, aware of others, could say “you” and “yours” and “me” and “mine.” Persons have wills, can make decisions, can submit to one another, and can express love and fellowship. Jesus was exemplifying personhood when he distinguished his own will from the will of God the Father who sent Him. But notice Jesus the one who says “I” and who as a will, said He was sent by the Father who has a will. It is not the case that this is speaking of the time of the incarnation. It is speaking of the time before that incarnation. … before the incarnation. Man

In fact, in John 14:26, Jesus says, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.” So, the H.S. will be sent by the Father, yet the Father sent Jesus before the incarnation. So, who was sent? Furthermore, the language Jesus uses suggests three persons. We know that Christ Himself is a person. But in this verse, we also see that the Father will perform the action of sending the Holy Spirit, who will bring to the remembrance of the disciples everything, Jesus said. Now, the oneness person might suggest these are different modes or manifestations. But given that Jesus had already said that He came down from heaven not to do His own will but the will of Him who sent Him, this is best addressed by saying that the persons both existed, simultaneously, prior to Christ’s incarnation.

Now, what I have presented so far is background information that supports the plurality of God. But, the Trinity is not arrived at by only consider verses like these. Instead, we arrive at it systematically, by looking at the whole of scripture. Let me repeat this. The doctrine of the Trinity is not arrived at by looking at just a few verses. It is arrived at by systematically applying logic to the full revelation of scripture. Therefore, there is no single verse that proves or disproves the doctrine of the Trinity. If my opponent seeks to invalidate the doctrine of the Trinity, then he has to address that system by which it is derived. He would then have to demonstrate that the systematic approach I will present here is both unbiblical and illogical. Only then could he falsify the Trinitarian doctrine. But if you do not, then the Trinity teaching is maintained and his oneness theology falls by the wayside.

We know that the Bible says there is only one God in all existence, all places, and all time. Trinitarian’s firmly believe in this and defend it.

T H E    T R I N I T Y
	FATHER	SON	HOLY SPIRIT
Called God	Phil. 1:2	John 1:1,14	Acts 5:3-4
All-knowing	1 John 3:20	John 21:17	1 Cor. 2:10-11
Fellowship	1 John 1:3	1 Cor. 1:9	2 Cor. 13:14
A Will	Luke 22:42	Luke 22:42	1 Cor. 12:11
Love	John 3:16	Eph. 5:25	Rom. 15:30
Speaks	Matt. 3:17	Luke 5:20	Acts 13:2

Does the Bible teach that the Father is called God along with the Son and the Holy Spirit? Yes, it does.

Does the Bible say that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each all-knowing? Yes, it does.

Does the Bible say that the Father and the Son have separate wills? Yes, it does. Luke 22:42, “Not my will, but your will be done.”

Does the Bible say they were called into fellowship with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit?  Yes, it does.

Does the Father speaks to the Son and the Son speaks of the Father?  Yes, they do

Does it not also say that the Holy Spirit speaks and has a will?  Yes, He does.

These facts are clearly taught in Scripture and this is exactly how the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at. But if my opponent denies the Trinity then he must deny that we have fellowship with three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  He must deny that each has a will, that each is all-knowing, that each speaks, and that each recognizes the others’ existence. But to do so would mean to deny Scripture.  And, since this is how the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at then my opponent faces a severe difficulty.

If he ignores my presentation on how the Trinity is arrived at, then my argument stands unrefuted.

If my opponent acknowledges, as he should according to Scripture, that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each speak, each has a will, speak to each other, each loves, each is all-knowing, etc., then he has agreed with how the doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at.

What will he say?